twin turbo he351ve control same can bus no problems

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Offline 65fpvmustang

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Re: twin turbo he351ve control same can bus no problems
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2016, 10:39:56 PM »
my little 2.3 would have to spin 9000 rpm to reach full boost with twin he351.
Anything below 9k would be on the surge line.
I thought about twins on a 5.0 ford but found a nice he561 instead saved a little weight lol
A series parallel system would be neat for a lower boost setup.

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Offline hakcenter

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Re: twin turbo he351ve control same can bus no problems
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2016, 06:59:53 AM »
Ya exactly, 2 800lbs turbos or 1 hanging off the motor.

I look at it where I can spool around 9-11cm, so I have room to go down. The downside of course is loosing the brake. Which is pretty dang handy.

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Offline Rx7man

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Re: twin turbo he351ve control same can bus no problems
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2016, 08:58:37 AM »
It depends if you're talking about VE as compressed gas or VE as ambient air volume
I consider it as compressed gas, as that changes little with boost, and then factor in the pressure/density ratio when looking at the turbo.
Using the Compressed VE, it stays about the same as an NA engine, the point of max VE is probably close to your max torque, and you have numbers you can estimate.. if you use don't do it that way, your VE changes with boost and it's hard to figure anything out. 
Your right, MASS air flow is the only thing that *really* matters when looking at power outputs, but VE will tell you how good a head design you have, factor in boost/MAF and you can get a good estimate of what power outputs are possible.. it's a little harder on diesels I think since they have a wider range of "happy" A/F ratios, depending on how much smoke and EGT's you're willing to push
'94 dodge, Colt Cam, head worked, NV5600, 3.55's, SB clutch, Ford manual hubs w. hawk brakes, custom flatdeck, custom aluminum bumper, cab off restoration, totally new engine, Mahle pistons @19:1..HE351VE with 67mm turbine and 67x95mm compressor
440hp/1000 ft lb @ 2400 RPM

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Offline Rx7man

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Re: twin turbo he351ve control same can bus no problems
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2016, 09:02:18 AM »
Missed page 2
I think on cummins 5.9, a 561 over a 351 could be an interesting compound setup :).. If your have figured out a way to hold the head down, you could run about 20:1 pressure ratios, or 300 PSI boost.. that would be scarey!
'94 dodge, Colt Cam, head worked, NV5600, 3.55's, SB clutch, Ford manual hubs w. hawk brakes, custom flatdeck, custom aluminum bumper, cab off restoration, totally new engine, Mahle pistons @19:1..HE351VE with 67mm turbine and 67x95mm compressor
440hp/1000 ft lb @ 2400 RPM

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Offline 65fpvmustang

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Re: twin turbo he351ve control same can bus no problems
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2016, 12:18:44 PM »
reminds me of a tractor pull where the engine split just below the cylinder bores. only the crank and pistons were left in the engine compartment. now that's some boost.

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Offline Rx7man

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Re: twin turbo he351ve control same can bus no problems
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2016, 02:29:10 PM »
There was one called "European maid", it wasn't running diesel, no smoke, but it had twin (or more) turbos, and it blew the top of the engine off, and he drove over the whole top end.. I figure it was running methanol or something exotic... I don't know how it happened, but you could see there was a flash in the turbo a split second before it all went to hell.. perhaps a valve stuck igniting the intake charge?  Could be all sorts of stuff.
'94 dodge, Colt Cam, head worked, NV5600, 3.55's, SB clutch, Ford manual hubs w. hawk brakes, custom flatdeck, custom aluminum bumper, cab off restoration, totally new engine, Mahle pistons @19:1..HE351VE with 67mm turbine and 67x95mm compressor
440hp/1000 ft lb @ 2400 RPM

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Offline 65fpvmustang

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Re: twin turbo he351ve control same can bus no problems
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2016, 08:18:09 AM »
yep that's the one I was thinking about.

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Offline Rx7man

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Re: twin turbo he351ve control same can bus no problems
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2016, 12:30:44 PM »
There was another one that threw a rod... and they shut it down, and it was just slowly spinning down, throwing rod after rod out the side of the block.

On that one, what I'm noticing is a lot of the wrist pins seems to have walked loose... Perhaps the keepers failed?
'94 dodge, Colt Cam, head worked, NV5600, 3.55's, SB clutch, Ford manual hubs w. hawk brakes, custom flatdeck, custom aluminum bumper, cab off restoration, totally new engine, Mahle pistons @19:1..HE351VE with 67mm turbine and 67x95mm compressor
440hp/1000 ft lb @ 2400 RPM

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Offline jlast

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Re: twin turbo he351ve control same can bus no problems
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2016, 06:46:54 PM »
still catching up reading with everyone here from thier different other boards...  been studying and
researching all of this.    And this thread finally answered one question,  can drive two vgt :)

On another note i finally did find he561vgt spec

70 or 71 in  by 114
86 by 72 ex
16-36 A/R
11mm big through shaft

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Offline Rx7man

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Re: twin turbo he351ve control same can bus no problems
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2016, 08:11:05 AM »
Is the address of the 561 different than the 351?
'94 dodge, Colt Cam, head worked, NV5600, 3.55's, SB clutch, Ford manual hubs w. hawk brakes, custom flatdeck, custom aluminum bumper, cab off restoration, totally new engine, Mahle pistons @19:1..HE351VE with 67mm turbine and 67x95mm compressor
440hp/1000 ft lb @ 2400 RPM

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Offline 65fpvmustang

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Re: twin turbo he351ve control same can bus no problems
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2016, 05:50:16 PM »
don't know most 561 are 24v my 5?? has a 73.6mm 105.8 mm comp 85mm 80mm turbine only one ive seen. and custom he351 actuator.
the measurements are of the wheels.

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Offline punisher454

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Re: twin turbo he351ve control same can bus no problems
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2016, 07:01:56 PM »
Quote
With VGT, I don't see why no one has actually twin'd a pair of 351's

  I am currently building a twin he351 setup.
454 chevy 8.5:1 with 320cc aluminum rectangle port heads and a Lunati roller cam. Custom EFI setup and water to air intercoolers.  Should push my 3200 lb '74 Firebird nicely :)

  Its a slow build thats been ongoing for quite a while, with a long way to go still. But I'll post here when I have good stuff to show.

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Offline Rx7man

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Re: twin turbo he351ve control same can bus no problems
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2016, 10:54:09 AM »
It does make sense to do in a V8 application, also the airflow through a V8 gasser is WAAAY higher than on a cummins diesel, not only because of better port flows, but because of higher RPM capability. 
I would try to find a way to have the left turbo feed the right side cylinders.. If there's any deviation between turbo characteristics, this will help even it out, though it would require 2 intercoolers :(
As long as everything is well matched, having both turbos commanded to identical positions should work alright.. I'd want to take shaft speed readings off both of them to make sure their workload is balanced.. There is a chance you might need to run a second CAN bus for the one of them if they aren't acting in unison properly, unless it's possible to re-address them
'94 dodge, Colt Cam, head worked, NV5600, 3.55's, SB clutch, Ford manual hubs w. hawk brakes, custom flatdeck, custom aluminum bumper, cab off restoration, totally new engine, Mahle pistons @19:1..HE351VE with 67mm turbine and 67x95mm compressor
440hp/1000 ft lb @ 2400 RPM

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Offline punisher454

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Re: twin turbo he351ve control same can bus no problems
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2016, 01:44:28 PM »
Right now I'm planning to use separate controllers, but programmed identically.

 Both turbo's are going into a very big single plane manifold through a single 101mm throttlebody. To do the right feeds the left strategy would require a modified cross ram or Individual Runner type manifold, which would tend to provide a more peaky top end hp, but usually a lot less power "under the curve". Ok for drag race only setups where you stay near peak hp all the time but sucks for street/strip cars. Also that manifold type is way expensive, and my rectangle port manifold with a 4500 Dominator carb flange cost me under 200 bucks. I think manifold runner tuning and such is probably much much more critical on a performance gas engine than a diesel, where max hp, max torque and most efficient cruising rpm's are all fairly close together. Thats why I believe the VGT may actually show a larger advantage over traditional turbos on gas engines.

 As for the intercooler, I am planning to use 2 water-air coolers. 1 would work, but I can shorten the plumbing even more with 2, and also keep the weight a little farther back, and in a 3200LB big block car I need to try to move as much weight as far aft as I can. Also water hoses are less bulky and easier to route than longer intake piping.
 
  A custom VGT setup on a diesel is really like early pioneering right now, and on a gas engine its more or less exploring mysterious new lands. These are exciting times. 

 The conditions these turbos will be so very very different than what is needed on a Cummins, it will be very interesting to say the least.

 But right now I have 2 other car projects and a CNC mill upgrade to take care of before I can do much more on the bird. I strongly doubt I'll get it on the road in 2017, probably more like summer 2018. and I plan to hold off on the controller hardware until near the end just so I will be running the latest greatest version when the time comes.

  I watch this board a couple times a week and am very glad to have found it. My own attempt at controlling the VGT about 5 years ago was with a 32Mhz avrX-Mega, and got as far as building the driver to directly controll the Brushless motor as a servo. I just de-soldered the original circuit board from the motor and replaced it with a board design of my own that just interfaced the motor pins, hall sensors and the position sensor on the gears. I decided to relocate the electronics away from the turbo into the control box. Anyhow, My project got as far as motor control and GUI on a small graphics LCD. I never got as far as any actual real control logic. Even if I had the time, it would have taken me at least a year or more to even get half as far as the lilbb is now. I'm so happy to have found this site. 

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Offline 65fpvmustang

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Re: twin turbo he351ve control same can bus no problems
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2016, 10:41:35 AM »
twin he351ve should spool good on a big block. my 2.3 starts getting boost around 1500 rpm .5 psi at 3000' elevation.
but around 3500- 4000 rpm she really comes alive at 4500rpm 30psi boost is no problem.